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Indiana Guide Panel Discussion

Category: chat

 Feb 1st, 2006 by OutdoorsFIRST 

Modified Feb 1st, 2006 at 12:00 AM

Slamr: MuskieFIRST Welcomes Mike Hulbert and the King Brothers to the Chat Room for our first ever Indiana Panel Discussion. King_Brothers: thanks for having us ToddM: How many are there I the brothers king? King_Brothers: what Slamr: first of all, each of you, can you describe your guide service (what waters you service, specialties, etc.) King_Brothers: waters Webster, Barbee Chain, Tippy. MikeHulbert: I am on the water mostly everyday, from late march through December. 220+ days a year. Webster, Barbee Tippy and up in MN during the summer time. Specialties: Open Water Fishing ToddM: Have any of you guys been out this year? King_Brothers: We have 3 guides so we can book multiple people in 1 day MikeHulbert: Yes I have been out a few times, doing fairly well, 40 inch avg. right now. King_Brothers: specialties same as Mike open water Slamr: whets the pattern right now? Slamr: (and everyone, ask some questions) Muskydr: being such a mild winter and you all being able to get out on the water in Jan and fib what is your most consistent producer MikeHulbert: Depends on what you want to catch, big fish or small fish. Vince_Weirick: tuff shad off the breaks King_Brothers: We haven’t been out much yet but we heard small crank baits and fuzzy duzzits ToddM: What has been the bite so far this year, jigging, gliders, swim baits? Vince_Weirick: fish are coming from the tops of the breaks…big and small Muskydr: secondary MikeHulbert tells you: Is this a Vince Chat? Vince_Weirick: sit in 20 ft. of water casting into 6-8 King_Brothers: consistent producer bull dawgs small glide baits muskyboy: King Brothers, congrats on that big fish last year MikeHulbert: This year, the larger fish have been caught on rubber baits King_Brothers: Thanks muskyboy: Are all lakes open or just parts? PFLesox: magnums? Vince_Weirick: All lakes muskyboy: Sweet MikeHulbert: They are all open Vince_Weirick: but doesn’t look good for the weekend AlgaeKilla: Tuff Shad glider or Crank? Vince_Weirick: after tomorrow the forecast is lower 30s for highs 5 days in a row Vince_Weirick: crank Muskydr: live bait at all?? Slamr: how cold does it need to get at night, to create ice for us the next morning… Vince_Weirick: not able to get live bait King_Brothers: in the 20s Vince_Weirick: water temps are 37-38 PFLesox: any trolling? Slamr: let’s talk Pre-Spawn: whets your approach as the water warms, before the fish go into a baby making mode? Vince_Weirick: some fish are being caught trolling King_Brothers: we don’t troll much mainly cast pgaschulz: If you had a four hour window only to fish one day a week what day and what hours would you fish the Indy waters and why? King_Brothers: small bucktails, small bull dawgs, glide baits and fish shallow Vince_Weirick: Right now I am catching fish all day long. I would have to say that mid morning has been the better producer MikeHulbert: Rubber baits and large twitch baits just off the breaks for the larger fish, smaller fish will be up shallow, pre 50 degree temps Slamr: any OPEN water (more than a cast away from the break) action? MikeHulbert: pga, depends on what time of year you are talking about King_Brothers: On a Wed less boating traffic and the last 4 hrs before dark Vince_Weirick: Yes…got one today on a fuzzy Vince_Weirick: 38 foot of water PFLesox: size/ Vince_Weirick: suspended at 20 ft. 36″ King_Brothers: any open water concentrate on the schools of shad Slamr: Open water fish, how do you decide where and when to start? Vince_Weirick: Yes, that is what I started marking was balls of shad and then the hooks came MikeHulbert: Being on the water everyday lets me know where to go. Slamr: do you just find the shad and start? or start and wait till you find shad till you slow down? Vince_Weirick: Typically I find the shad first for jigging. Muskydr: Webster is pretty small, shouldn’t be too hard to find shad MikeHulbert: a little of both, if I know there were large schools shad there the day before, but they have moved, muskies will still be there King_Brothers: find the shad start casting and basically wait for hungry muskies Vince_Weirick: I have been finding more of the shad in echo bay recently. PFLesox: how big do the shad get? MikeHulbert: 3-12 inches AlgaeKilla: Do the big shad school with the small shad Vince_Weirick: I have seen many over a foot long in Tippy. King_Brothers: We have seen shad 14 to 16 inches in Webster King_Brothers: Yes they all school together MikeHulbert: The school together, but their location in the school is different. Slamr: what do environmental conditions do to the movements of the shad, such as bringing them up, concentrating them, or keeping them down low? PFLesox: the spawn in the spring PFLesox: based on water temp? MikeHulbert: yesKing_Brothers: I find most of the shad in the upper 15 feet of water MikeHulbert: I have done a lot with underwater camera, what allot of use think are shad, are not. It was a very interesting project for sure Slamr: what did you learn from that Mike? ToddM: Do you think many shad will die over this winter and how will that affect the fishing? MikeHulbert: Shad movements based on water temps Vince_Weirick: Not many will die as normal because of the ice coming off. Slamr: what do the water temps do to the movements of the shad? Vince_Weirick: I don’t think it will affect the fishing. c_h_pete: if not shad, then what are they mike…gar? muskyboy: How big was that gar huge MikeHulbert: bluegills, crappie, bass, perch, and usually they are all mixed in together. Slamr: so we’ve been talking mostly about this really cold water situation we’re seeing now, water warms into the 40s, how are seeing the muskies location changing? Vince_Weirick: I have also used my underwater camera on Tippy…I kept coming across an area of hooks on my screen. I figured one would bit but nothing came of it. I put my camera down and found 100’s of gar… muskyboy: All tasty game fish for muskies Vince_Weirick: suspended from 15-30 ft. szqwral: Evening everyone — Steve is a little delayed from driving back — just pulled in drive! pgaschulz: Has anyone heard the results of the study they did this year on webster for the musky program, if so what did you hear, if not do you know when they will have the results? Creel survey I believe it way. King_Brothers: They are starting to move shallow getting ready for the spawn when the water starts warming MikeHulbert: Results from the study will take some time to get out Slamr: questions everyone (I’m just asking because no one else is) muskyboy: What colors do you like? Vince_Weirick: got to get back to work everyone…hitting the water again tomorrow. later King_Brothers: shad crappie perch blue gill whites and blacks BFH: Thanks ToddM: The last 4 winters have had a bad pre-spawn bite, the last good one was ’02 after el-nino. do you think muskies dine on dead and dying shad until spawn rather than chase a meal? Slamr: do you guys go totally with the match the hatch, or is there a time/place for wild bright colors? King_Brothers: no I think they prefer live food MikeHulbert: I throw a ton of bright colored lures. Muskydr: what is the secci reading typically on the chain??? MikeHulbert: depends on the time of year King_Brothers: usually we go match the hatch but if you’re going to use bright baits use them when it’s cloudy Slamr: is there a specific time when the brighter colors shine, versus the match the hatch? MikeHulbert: and depends on the lake on the barbee chain MikeHulbert: yeah, when there are 50 boats out there muskyboy: Unmatch the other guys’ hatch Slamr: you guys both fish 3 bodies of water, can you tell us a bit about each lake and the different approaches you use on each? MikeHulbert: you got it. Muskydr: when will you feel confident throwing topwaters ?? muskyboy: What’s the biggest musky you estimated you have seen in IN waters? MikeHulbert: Open water on Webster and Tippy, fish mostly shallow on the chain ToddM: How long have you guys been fishing the barbee chain and has it been as productive now they have started the big weed project? MikeHulbert: Tippy is deep and clear, Barbee lakes are small and shallow, webster has both King_Brothers: Since they are all chained together allot of the same presentations work on all the lakes and they all have the same forage shad dawgwalker: how many days do you guys average in a season on the Indiana waters??? MikeHulbert: the weed project has not hurt one thing. King_Brothers: Topwaters when the water gets 60 degrees MikeHulbert: I am usually on the water around 210-220 days a year. King_Brothers: the biggest muskie wave seen in Indiana is probably 53 inches PFLesox: does Tippy stay cool enough to fish in the dog days of summer? MikeHulbert: NO muskyboy: Sweet AlgaeKilla: 60 what about in fall when do you stop King_Brothers: we average about a hundred days a year hb: are there guys that still target muskies in the heat of the summer there? I hope no guides are out there doing it??? King_Brothers: when the waters gets close to 80 degrees we stop fishing for them MikeHulbert: I throw topwaters as soon as the water temps hit 50 and stop, or really slow down, when they get below 50 Slamr: talking topwaters, what do you see as more effective, the side to sides, or the tail rotators? where, when? King_Brothers: About 50 ToddM: have you guys fished any of the other lakes outside the webster cluster? MikeHulbert: People still fish during the heat of the summer, know several that do PFLesox: that sucks King_Brothers: side to side King_Brothers: We fish allot of lakes in Northern Wisconsin RiverMan has left the room. MikeHulbert: I prefer tail baits over walk the dog fishi8: are there certain times when you will go to a certain lake based on weather conditions 8inchcrank: There you guys are…I was wondering why the forum was so quiet. King_Brothers: Butternut, Big Sis, The Big Chip and a bunch of other small lakes AlgaeKilla: Even mid day Mike chop vs. dog SAVVY18: Is that the Butternut in Price County? 8inchcrank: Good evening. King_Brothers: We like to fish Tippy and James when it’s cloudy due to the clear water King_Brothers: Yes in Price County SAVVY18: Thanks 8inchcrank: Cloudy skies and clear water…natural baits or firetiger? King_Brothers: Natural baits but I ‘vet seen the firetiger work real good to so I try both of them MikeHulbert: AlgaeKiller, yes MikeHulbert: bright lures dawgwalker: when and how do you determine with high temps it is time to call it quits. I know there were guys going out in late June early July when it was very hot 8inchcrank: I love the bright stuff in those situations, had a lot of success especially on pressured waters. 8inchcrank: Which is basically all of northern Wisconsin. 🙂 King_Brothers: When the waters get in the high 70s I would think about calling it quits MikeHulbert: I canceled 22 trips this past year due to high water temps. Fish die, even at night, and cooler days, etc… 80+ degrees is STOP TIME PFLesox: any chance of getting the dnr to close the season during the HOT time sworrall: Gentlemen, do you fish live bait at all in Indiana? AlgaeKilla: What about low 70’s water temp and near 90 air temps MikeHulbert: No way, the DNR would never do that. King_Brothers: yes we fish live bait allot MikeHulbert: yes, I fish it but HATE it. PFLesox: don’t tell Tim that MikeHulbert: Never!!! dawgwalker: with the high heat how was your season last year as far as fish totals avg or below avg. sworrall: favorite rig for suckers? PFLesox: he stuck a fat 44 with u on live bait Muskydr: you guys have to deal with allot of pressure on your waters, typically what would the chain look like say the first weekend of may??? MikeHulbert: The spring was really good, early June was great, but then I had to quit!!! King_Brothers: we used to use the Pete Maina rig but now we make our own that is similar c_h_pete: barbee PFLesox: one thing I noticed is the average sucker size used is smaller than WI & MN Slamr: where, how are you setting your live bait presentations? 8inchcrank: I know people a lot of the Kentucky, Indiana and Illinois boys head north like you Mike, however, how do the locals practice the warm water ethics of not fishing? King_Brothers: Starting to get real busy by the first week of may MikeHulbert: It all depends on water temp King_Brothers: we like to run 2 suckers close to the boat and one off the back on a bobber MikeHulbert: The locals still fish during high water temps. Know of several big fish that died due to the stress of high water temps this past year. hb: Jason k. you boated a 49″ on July 3rd 05…were the water temps low enough for you to be fishing on July 3rd last year???? King_Brothers: the 2 next to the boat are usually in the top 3 feet of water Muskydr: how many lines per angler down there? MikeHulbert: 3 MikeHulbert: I like to run my suckers deep in the fall, generally 12-20 feet down dawgwalker: how many clients can you guys accommodate in your boats??? PFLesox: do use suckers in the spring King_Brothers: that was the last day we fished for the summer and yes they were close to the cut off temp MikeHulbert: I put 2 clients in my boat at a time, and I am in the back. King_Brothers: we have 3 guides 2 per boat 8inchcrank: Mike, can you look back on that local question I had? MikeHulbert: yes, I use them in the spring, but not as much as in the fall MikeHulbert: What was it 8 inch Crank? 8inchcrank: Do the locals care about the warm water temps like guys like you, Thomas, Cain and Grant do or do they abuse the fish? King_Brothers: we hear of lots of people fishing all summer sworrall: In order to book a day, how would one contact your guide service, gents? MikeHulbert: Some lay off, but allot of people still fish. Know of several big fish that died due to high water temps in 05 dawgwalker: I heard from the dnr survey people they were finding allot of fish floating this summer muskyboy: People fishing bass catch them all the time, same with people fishing for other stuff year round MikeHulbert: You can find me at allot of the sport shows, or through my site: http://www.mikehulbert.com or call 419-553-6570 King_Brothers: WWW.Websterlakeguideservice.com Hunter4: whats a full day cost? King_Brothers: or call219-510-3104 muskyboy: What new lures do you guys like MikeHulbert: yeah, I saw a lot of floaters and seen several laying dead on the bottom Muskydr: with the high population density what was your best day on the water?? dawgwalker: mike I’ve seen some of your articles in musky hunter magazine can we expect any new ones anytime soon??? King_Brothers: Real Fish, Storm kicking Minnow MikeHulbert: 275 for a full day, which is not your typical 8 hours, if you want to fish 18 hours, that is fine with me. dawgwalker: mainly regarding Indiana fishing King_Brothers: 275 a day MikeHulbert: Yes, I am writing one right now for Musky Hunter. Plastics Under Pressure. AlgaeKilla: How much attention do you guys pay to the moon i.e. majors and minors effecting feeding windows Slamr: for your guide dates, do you find you’re TEACHING more, or taking clients out that just want to see and catch muskies? MikeHulbert: my best day was 19 fish boated King_Brothers: We don’t pay much attention to the moons we fish whenever we get a chance muskyboy: What is the musky density on Barbee and Tippy, since we hear Webster is 6 per acre dawgwalker: are you guys doing any seminars this winter during the so called off season even though I hear the lakes are open MikeHulbert: I pay allot of attention to the moon phases. They work for sure King_Brothers: you end up doing allot of teaching but in the end we all want to catch muskie 8inchcrank: Mike, are you guiding now? I have heard Webster has put out a big fish or two in the past week. Muskydr: that kicking minnow is going to put mucho fish in my boat this year MikeHulbert: I am not guiding now. There have been a few big fish caught, but not many. MikeHulbert: My boat is not built yet….. King_Brothers: yeah that bait looks really good Hunter4: Hey mike did tom get his new rig 8inchcrank: I put the Tuffy in Green Bay last Sat. 1 minute jigging, 5 mins on the Mr. Heater. MikeHulbert: yes PFLesox: who makes the kicking minnow? MikeHulbert: Storm King_Brothers: Storm lures Muskydr: what rig do you guys run?? sworrall: What rods do you each run? PFLesox: soft plastic? King_Brothers: We have a 2005 Tracker tournament V18 MikeHulbert: I will be running a ’06 1910SC Polar Kraft with a 150 Suzuki 4 stroke Muskydr: yep pfl PFLesox: thnx dawgwalker: do you both guide from the back of the boat or the front? King_Brothers: St croix rods with Abu Garcia reels King_Brothers: The back of the boat MikeHulbert: This year I have switched and my clients and I will be using Professional Edge Diamonback rods. I have worked with Keith and have come up with some really nice product. MikeHulbert: http://www.professionaledgefishingrods.com PFLesox: they are sweet rods MikeHulbert: I only guide out of the back, would never be up front. c_h_pete: Will this new polar kraft handle the infamous Indiana musky chop? Slamr: when the water cools, and you’re back on the water, early fall, whets the best approach? PFLesox: saw them at the tri esox show dawgwalker: are both of you guys 100% catch and release or is it up to the client??? MikeHulbert: 100% catch and release King_Brothers: We fish suspended allot using Blue fox Vibrax, darters and bulldawgs muskyboy: What percent of your time are you tossing soft plastics? MikeHulbert: Yes, the Polar Kraft will handle the CHOOP King_Brothers: 100 % catch and releaseKing_Brothers: we use soft plastics about half the time MikeHulbert: early fall….shallow with rubber, like Delong Eels and Bikini Bait Company’s Turmoils King_Brothers: The swimming Joe has done real well for us King_Brothers: all year Slamr: Mike, how are you running the Kil’r Eeel, Kings: the Swimmin Joe? MikeHulbert: Slack line, and sharp snaps. MikeHulbert: Swimmin Joe’s you can either straight crank or cranks and twitch King_Brothers: We like to work the Swimming Joe with a slow steady retrieve it really gets the tail working BFH: you uses dawgs or joe’s more guys? MikeHulbert: dawgs for sure BFH: mags? King_Brothers: We use both allot Slamr: Release tools: so key, what are you guys using in terms of cutters, pliers, nets, etc muskyboy: Ever try the Pounders Hunter4: Do any of you guys utilize spoons either casting or trolling hb: what nets do you use ? do you like Beckman or the Frabills? MikeHulbert: The best release tool I have is my Frabill Big Kahuna. King_Brothers: Knipex cutters and pliers Beckman net Finsaver net King_Brothers: No we don’t use spoons much MikeHulbert: The Big Kahuna is the biggest best net on the market. It is a livewell in the water 8inchcrank: Do you wear a life jacket when trying to get a fish out of a big kahuna? I wear floaties. MikeHulbert: I also carry about 4 pair of pliers, 3 bolt cutters, jaw spreaders, etc…. JZDANK1: Do you guys prefer the shallow dawgs, or the regular ones? MikeHulbert: Depends on where the fish are at JZ dawgwalker: do you guys still have allot of dates open for the up coming season???? King_Brothers: yeah it’s good to have spare pliers and cutters King_Brothers: regular dawgs sworrall: One more time, gents, how can you be reached for a booking? MikeHulbert: My spring is fully booked, and I have about 8 days left in June. The fall is about 70% full. King_Brothers: Yeah we still have dates open JZDANK1: That’s exactly how I use them MikeHulbert: http://www.mikehulbert.com or 419-553-6570 or at the sport shows! King_Brothers: www.websterlakeguideservice.com 219-510-3104 Jeff or Jason sworrall: thanks! dawgwalker: can we catch any seminars you guys may be doing yet this winter or spring??? King_Brothers: Chae Dolson who we guide with is doing a seminar at the Valparaiso show MikeHulbert: I will be doing two seminars at the Tinley Park Show in 2 weeks, another at the Chicago Extreme Show and will be doing several seminars this winter at several Muskie Inc. clubs Hunter4: Thanks guys for your time tonight. King_Brothers: Thank you MikeHulbert: thanks for coming PFLesox: when’s the valpo show muskyboy: See you on the water, Mike will be our FRV April Speaker RiverMan: thanks guys! Slamr: A few words for beginner fisherman (overall) in their first trip to Indy waters? King_Brothers: Feb 25 and 26 MikeHulbert: Hire a guide!! LOL PFLesox: thnx sworrall: that’s actually good advice King_Brothers: Fish suspended lots of muskies in the open water c_h_pete: Tight lines MikeHulbert: For beginners, just looking to get their feet wet, I would suggest fishing shallow with easy lures to work such as S.S Shads, Turmoils, bulldawgs and buck tails. 8inchcrank: I have heard Webster is a great lake for shad colored lures. Do you “match this hatch”? MikeHulbert: And don’t run around like you have to fish the entire lake in 2 hours. Stay put Slamr: any last questions? King_Brothers: yeah shad colors work real good dawgwalker: how much of your business is repeat clients?? muskyboy: What temps do you start jigging? MikeHulbert: Shad colored lures do work well, but I would guess that over 60% of the fish are not caught on shad colored lures PFLesox: when is Webster going to get a restaurant that stay open past 9:00 PM King_Brothers: 50 digress in the fall and right after ice out MikeHulbert: About 75% of my business is repeat clients Professional_Edge: Mike what is the pressure like on your water compared to your guiding in Minnesota? MikeHulbert: NO COMPAIRSON! dawgwalker: do you guys keep track of how many fish your client’s avg say per day on the water MikeHulbert: I am used to 25+ boats a day on less than 1000 acres of water, in MN, I might see one-2 boats a day on 3,000-6,000 acres King_Brothers: we keep track of all fish we put in the boat MikeHulbert: Yes, I keep a written log Elby has left the room. sworrall: MuskieFIRST Thanks the ‘Indiana Connection’ guides for a great hour! Thanks for your time and advice, gentlemen. King_Brothers: Thanks for having us